Get ready to strap on your skates and tune up your instrument! Today’s episode is a two-parter, as we welcome back our favorite injured guest, Chris. We kick the puck around with a deep dive into the Philadelphia Flyers' new regime - from their savvy strategies to a frank conversation about the team's urgent need for homegrown defensemen. We're calling it a promising year for the Flyers
After the final whistle, we switch from our hockey jerseys into our music tees. We plunge into a symphony of topics, unfolding the complex personalities of woodwind players, the art of showmanship in music, and the emotion-stirring magic of intervals and chords. Chris, with his wealth of insights, navigates us through these melodies. We also discuss the energy, fashion, and generational shifts in the world of concerts. Whether it's a large arena or an intimate performance, each has an unmatched vibrancy.
Can't get enough of music? Hold on, because we go a step further. We explore the controversial topic of sampling in music, and its parallels with the works of Roy Lichtenstein. As we dissect the ethical implications, we discuss the challenges of sustaining a music career, the power of improvisation in jazz, and the delicate dance of control and collaboration within a band. With Chris on our side, we strum through these intriguing subjects. So plug in, tune up, and let’s hit play.
Get ready to strap on your skates and tune up your instrument! Today’s episode is a two-parter, as we welcome back our favorite injured guest, Chris. We kick the puck around with a deep dive into the Philadelphia Flyers' new regime - from their savvy strategies to a frank conversation about the team's urgent need for homegrown defensemen. We're calling it a promising year for the Flyers
After the final whistle, we switch from our hockey jerseys into our music tees. We plunge into a symphony of topics, unfolding the complex personalities of woodwind players, the art of showmanship in music, and the emotion-stirring magic of intervals and chords. Chris, with his wealth of insights, navigates us through these melodies. We also discuss the energy, fashion, and generational shifts in the world of concerts. Whether it's a large arena or an intimate performance, each has an unmatched vibrancy.
Can't get enough of music? Hold on, because we go a step further. We explore the controversial topic of sampling in music, and its parallels with the works of Roy Lichtenstein. As we dissect the ethical implications, we discuss the challenges of sustaining a music career, the power of improvisation in jazz, and the delicate dance of control and collaboration within a band. With Chris on our side, we strum through these intriguing subjects. So plug in, tune up, and let’s hit play.
Um, this is another episode of the Express Lane podcast with.
Speaker 2:Kevin Stan. What's going on? Did we start the?
Speaker 1:Okay, cool, yeah, no I just didn't even look.
Speaker 2:I just know we started. So, kevin Stan, what's going on? Everybody, we got Chris with us today again. Finally.
Speaker 3:Well finally, that's quite a quite a couple.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, I enjoyed time on and you're one of the names of that gets thrown around when we're desperate for a guest. I'm like I could ask Chris. Well, also when I'm like just cuz we both like to talk to you and You're a good conversationalist, so we like having you here. So Mostly I like just listening to the fact that you hit us up even was like fucking perfect. We don't have to think about finding anybody like we'll ride right into this.
Speaker 3:Cool. No, hey, I'm happy to help. As you can hear, I am, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be playing injured a little bit. My, my voice has been totally gone since, like, well, I should say my voice was totally gone on Wednesday, wednesday night into Thursday this is actually the best it sounded in like three days.
Speaker 1:Is that yelling at the?
Speaker 3:Eagles game. Honestly, I don't know what it was, cuz I had a, the first Eagles game of yeah, the first Eagles game of the season that Sunday. The day the Saturday before, I had like a raging fever, akes just like took Tylenol, slept all day and then by Sunday it was like gone. The new variant, yeah, yeah, who knows what. Well, I would say it's the. It's the quote-unquote new variant of whatever. You know, kids at work are just like coughing into the air. That probably popped up. But like Monday and Tuesday felt fine, sounded fine, no symptoms of anything whatsoever, and then, like Wednesday night, after my schedule, I just like couldn't talk. And then all day Thursday I like didn't go into work, just cuz it's tough to do your job when you can't say anything.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you shut up for a couple of days, yeah, and I was hoping that that would work, but as you can hear, it kind of didn't and that's your second injury, you saying you're something about your ankle.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, yeah, my, my foot's all banged up, which also I have no explanation as to what happened. Usually, when there's like some sort of injury, it's like you can pinpoint it to oh yeah, this on this play this happened. Or oh, I was, like you know, carrying this box up the steps or down the steps because you know, in your 40s, that's all it takes now. You just carry something and then something gets hurt for like six weeks.
Speaker 2:But my last couple of injuries have been I slept, funny right.
Speaker 3:Yes, I woke up and it was like this. So, yeah, so I have like Something in my pinky toe. I don't know what it is, but it's like there's joy buzzer, electrical shocks, currents, like nerve stuff that like shoots through my pinky toe and also like my bottom part of my foot Whenever I take any steps said that go I.
Speaker 2:I think, that's usually like, I think, in your big toe, and that's just where it gets like all swollen and shit.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, that's so. That's the other weird part. If it was a broken bone or like a torn muscle or something. Typically when I've had broken bones or torn muscles there's like swelling or bruising.
Speaker 1:It looks the same as my other foot, so as long as it's not hot to the touch, that's Infection correct and it is not hot to the touch.
Speaker 2:It like literally looks the same, but it is excruciating pain like we went to the no, let's pop some feet out here, and there might be some people saying that's hot.
Speaker 3:Kristen and I went to the Flyers rookie game last night in Allentown and just the walk from the stadium to the parking garage was like it was like agony.
Speaker 1:So yeah.
Speaker 3:So it's crazy so not playing hockey right now, but I did get to watch the team today and it was. It was pretty fun. They. They look pretty good.
Speaker 2:So what do you think of the, the new regime? It's at the top of the Flyers. I.
Speaker 3:I mean so far, I think I Think any, I think with anything in life you have to sort of go into it Like the college professor, like you got an a until you start fucking up and not doing your homework, not handing in your projects, and then your grade like drops and drops and drops and drops and drops. I tend to Try to do that with everything, including this new regime of the Flyers, and so far They've like kept their grade, like I've liked a lot of the things that they've done. I like just some of the small details as well, as I don't know, just the, the transparency and the communication with the fan base, which is there. That's your lifeblood, that's where your money is coming from.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I'd say I think. I think they're doing it right. They're starting things slow the right way, something that needed to be done 22 years ago, after the lockout season, when they changed all the free agency rules?
Speaker 3:Yeah, because ever since the salary cap, they really haven't been able to put a team together. And then there's other small details, like the fact that how many homegrown defensemen have excelled in this organization ever like? Really none, like all of our best defensemen have been from other teams, like chemo teaming in and Chris Prong, or, more recently, or even going back as far as, like Mark, how like we don't grow them. You know, I'm sorry, stan, I'm looking more at Kev because I know you could give a shit Shores.
Speaker 2:Nothing to add to this.
Speaker 1:It's gonna be really good this year, but I think our defense could be better Again, like that's wrong on two counts right homegrown thing. We need more of that and Transitions and stuff like that. He's, but he's blending at least you know he's trying.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's, that wasn't bring back Eric Lindross.
Speaker 1:Jesus Christ, 88 dude. We're right over so close to the verge of everything he can add to this conversation right now.
Speaker 3:That's amazing, that's great. But, yes, it is. It is great to be back in the in the studio with you, gentlemen. I have been listening as much as I can I have. I have to admit I have not been as religiously listening to the podcast as I did in the first year and a half to To two-ish years, but I don't expect anybody to.
Speaker 2:I'm I'm not listening to it, so you're right there with me.
Speaker 3:I mean I do, but it's. But I think the I Tell me if you guys agree. But I think that podcasts now are sort of in some ways, like the new being in a band, right, like it's like a lot of people are in bands and then people are like, oh, that seems fun, like it's an awesome thing and like I could do that, I could play some music. I'll be in a band, and then they start a band and the next thing, you know, there's a lot of friends of yours who are like, yeah, like come see my band, come see my band, come see my band. And now it's like I think there's, I think people have seen over the last couple years the, the sway towards listening to podcasts and people are like, hey, people like podcasts, they want to listen to them. So now a lot of people have podcasts and so you refresh your feet of all the podcasts that you're listening to and there's new Episodes of like everything, and there's only so many hours in the day, so you guys sometimes get priority.
Speaker 1:But other times, absolutely, you know, you just start, you get into a click like you start listening to, for instance, like Matt and Shane's, and then they bring on guys and their little brothers do them, and then you got this whole. You've got ten podcasts Of all these people in the similar space, so you can only listen to so many. Yeah, yeah and there's a popular good people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's only like, but the opposite of being in a band, as you're saying, where You're in a band and then Stan wants to start a band and you're like, well, you can't play with Kevin because Kevin's in my band. So your fuck you, stan. But podcasting has been like I don't know like these dudes are hilarious or they're awesome. They have great insight on whatever they're gonna be on ours. Listen to us and listen to them like it's back and forth where that's. It seems to not be as ruthless as Banned membership goes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I would agree with that. I would say, in like a rock context you definitely see that a lot, but I do think in jazz everybody's always playing with everybody. So it's it's almost more like what you're describing with the podcast of like, oh, this guy's hilarious, he'll have great chemistry on the pod, on this other guys podcast, you put those two together and you're like, wow, that's podcast magic. Same thing with jazz, where it's like this particular drummer, it's like, oh, the way that they play, like they they should record with this saxophone player, and then they put like something together, they put a project together.
Speaker 2:So jazz, jazz musicians, just don't have egos. They didn't get your regular drummer doesn't get, but hurt that you want to. You know, play something with a new drummer.
Speaker 3:I would say that jazz musicians definitely have egos, but it's a different type of ego, I think. Like if you, if you have a trumpet player who's playing on a particular gig or in a project with somebody and then, like they, I Don't know, for whatever reason, there's a scheduling conflict or something like that and you have to hire somebody else for a particular gig, that original trumpet players not gonna get all that upset, they know. It's sort of the nature of the beast. However, I think when jazz egos come into play, I think it's just cuz some people are. They have the ego because they're playing jazz.
Speaker 2:You know they all just want to show their big solo.
Speaker 3:Kind of yeah, or just the fact that it's like I think some people erroneously look at jazz as like, oh, this is a, this is this high art of music, and like, because I know how to do X, y and Z musically well, I'm on this other level from other musicians. But then you can also you can argue with those people that like you could also go out and see like a singer, songwriter who just has like an amazing voice and they're banging out the same three chords that everybody in history has banged out. However, their performance is just like so captivating that you're just like it's such an impactful thing and it isn't even anywhere musically on that same level as jazz. But some people, again, they get their ego from just playing on that particular level.
Speaker 1:What position would you say is the the most egoist?
Speaker 3:So there is a generality of. Egotistical yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:There's generality of all the jazz people you've ever played with, and there's one position that sticks out where it's always that guy.
Speaker 2:Is the fucking problem. You can name names too, yeah that's.
Speaker 3:That's exactly what I was. First thing, I was like man, I'm gonna get in trouble with this answer. But If you talk to most musicians, a lot of musicians will say trumpet players. However, in my own experience, the trumpet players that I've worked with over the years have been like Amazing dudes, low maintenance, which, again, I feel like most musicians hearing me say this, they'd be like you're crazy, like this is not true. This is not the experience I've had with them, but you know three, four, five different trumpet players that we've worked with over the years. Every single one of them is like Super patient, great dudes. They're available for rehearsals, they play really well, whether they're playing like inside the changes or outside the changes. But To me, honestly, the most difficult personality types that I've worked with are saxophone players Hands down, and I won't name any specific names, but I've worked with a lot over the years and I would just say that, like you know, the majority of them- sexiest like instrument.
Speaker 3:I think it's just there like I'm attracted to it.
Speaker 2:Did the saxophone ego come before or after the Bill Clinton?
Speaker 1:That's exactly what I was thinking of. It's what won him the presidency?
Speaker 3:Well, I don't know, I wasn't playing music back then. I was like playing Super Nintendo, I think during the Clinton administration, but no, but I like almost every saxophone player I've worked with has ranged from being like you, like overly grumpy and just difficult personality wise, to just like hang around with and play music with, to being like ultra high maintenance and like amazingly inflexible, which for me, in being flexible, is like one of the number one traits I'm looking for in a musician. It's like I don't know. I think you have to be adaptable and you have to be able to, like you know, be flexible and be changeable and be OK with, like the fluidity of music. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:I think it'd probably be like the flute player prancing around and shit, doing all kinds of goofy stuff.
Speaker 2:Well, just so you're not have you been to a concert like I'll never go to a jazz concert the players fucking stance.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, they have like those hoof feet, to like they just little horns that cranks around and play the pan flute yeah that's a lute or no, that's more of a string instrument, isn't it the whole?
Speaker 3:yeah, lute is like. It's like an old school, like medieval kind of.
Speaker 1:Thing.
Speaker 3:But yeah, the pan flute is like what. Stan's talking about where it's like it kind of like it's it creates like it's like a little bit larger and you just sort of blow across it like you're a castaway on a on a raft or something. That's what I picture Jazz concerts like blowing out the Gilligan's Island theme, but you're a fantasy monster playing a made up instrument prancing around like dude.
Speaker 1:Stop trying to play music here.
Speaker 2:This says more about you than the music.
Speaker 3:Absolutely Well. I guess you're not like too far from the mark, though, because I mean the woodwind players. Typically they play all woodwind instruments, so they're they're versatile in that regard. Where they're Swiss Army knives, where they'll play like alto, sax, tenor sax, flute, clarinet, they'll play all those things. So you know, with flute, flute players. You're sort of in that in that same ballpark.
Speaker 1:I'm just thinking about that dude that plays in the subway, that dances, dances around playing the saxophone, maybe, yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh, I've seen some clips. I mean, please, I think he's playing a barry, so it's like the baritone sax is like the big, big one that sort of sounds like my voice right now.
Speaker 1:Kind of I mean he's just really good, he's just putting on a great show as much as he's playing good music, yeah, and he's got.
Speaker 3:You know, there's like energy in his playing which like I feel like so many times. That's what, when people are going to see music, they don't care if you're like, oh man, the way, the way. Like the saxophone player included that like high A and his solo over an E flat major seven chord and that made like an E flat major seven, sharp, 11. Like whoa, that was so cool. Like no one cares.
Speaker 3:What people care about is how they feel when they're, when they're listening to music or the like. When I say, feel like the energy of the music or the emotion of the music, like some people, it's like they listen to that emotional content of the music and what it's communicating to the listener and they're like, oh, that makes me like, feel these emotions. And then other people it's just the energy.
Speaker 1:It's like, oh yeah this makes me want to get up and dance. Can you make it a show, like? Can you show the people like not just through the music, because you know all that shit you just said about the flats and the ease and the numbers and stuff like that's fine. I don't know any of that and I think most people probably don't know how that dude's like showing you how good he's playing. I think it's probably part of it.
Speaker 3:And to your point about the various like notes or intervals that are used like but, yeah, like, nobody's listening for that. However, the mood that's communicated when you put that note into that chord, that is what's communicating to the listener Right.
Speaker 3:So it's like, if you want to, like, throwing that note into your solo is not like, oh, I'm going to be slick, I'll throw that note in. It's more like OK, this is the emotion that I want to evoke right now. I want it to sound like, for instance, that interval that I mentioned a second ago.
Speaker 3:In my opinion, that has a very like bittersweet or nostalgic sound in music. So when you put that interval into that specific type of chord, it has this like almost like you're remembering a fond memory but you're sad because it's not here anymore, you know like that nostalgic sort of bittersweet sort of feel. So if you want to communicate that, it's like, yeah, knowing the knowledge of this interval against this chord, like you put it in there, you're going to communicate that emotion. Your goal as a musician shouldn't be like, oh, I'm going to throw that in there because it's slick. Your goal should be well, this is the mood that I want to evoke in the solo. So, thanks to my knowledge that I have, I can throw that in there Like you kind of.
Speaker 1:That's why we need nerds in all things.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 2:I agree. How often do you find, say, a saxophone player that Plays with a lot of pizzazz, like someone, that's a performer that you would be like, damn, that guy is really hitting that saxophone hard, like dancing in the subway as he's playing, but just is a mediocre musician. Does that happen like a bunch where this guy's like I'm rocking out and everybody that knows music is like, yeah, that sucks.
Speaker 3:All the time, the time like and I'll even give a name because he's like a famous dude, not because he's like one of the homies that I've played with, because, like I'm not, I won't throw out those kind of names but we played a show one time years ago downstairs at World Cafe Live. So they have the upstairs where it's like the, you know, the little stage, and then downstairs is like where the big bands come through and we were part of like an event where they had a bunch of like touring bands and local bands and stuff. It was like an all day like sort of thing, and there was a musician that played before us called Trombone Shorty, and I don't know if this is a name that's come up for you guys.
Speaker 2:I feel like I've heard that name before.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's like you know and like he was on right before us, and so we're we're like off to the side of the stage and you know we have all of our stuff, because it was one of those things where you're like gear sharing so you don't have to set up all your stuff. You just basically walk out with your instrument, you plug into the house amp or the drummer just goes out, attaches the cymbals and the snare, but the house kit is there for them to use. So we're watching this dude and the music is so just like Like vanilla.
Speaker 2:Yes exactly.
Speaker 3:It was very mid as as, as the children say these days, as the youths say, but it was just like you know.
Speaker 3:But as he's playing the Trombone and you know the drummer is like playing this like backbeat and he's just like hopping straight up and down, which, again, again, for many reasons, I won't imitate right now. But him and everybody else on the stage in the band, they're all just like Pogo, sticking like, jumping straight up and down and everything. And like this sea of people, like hundreds of people in front of the stage, they like all are like, they like loved it and we're there and we're just like man, this is like. This is just so pandering and lame. And like this dude's just like hopping up and down, and then they finish their set and they're breaking down all their stuff and we go. I get like my pedal board, my guitar, and like Pete gets his bass and like and then we walk out to start like setting up our stuff and like 95% of the people that were there are gone now, like that, like every. But like there were like three or four bands even like after us and everybody bought tickets for this show.
Speaker 1:Just for that.
Speaker 3:And they all came to see that dude jump around on stage and play like mediocre ass music and then, once he was done, they didn't even stay and get their money's worth. Right, like, if I'm paying $25 for a ticket to see this band and I know there's like three or four other bands, chances are I'm probably going to like jump online and listen to the other bands just to see what they're like, and then if there's anything that's like, oh, these sort of interesting like I'll stay.
Speaker 1:I'll watch the other bands made at night of it. You where you going Exactly, the Pogo stick guy Exactly.
Speaker 2:Exactly, you pay $25 to get in. At least I see it as well. Now I'm not going to another bar, I'm here. So like anything that I'm going to go do now because of that guy's done, I might as well do it here. And there's still live music.
Speaker 3:Right Now again, like if there's certain circumstances, like we'll say a foot injury, and you're like, yeah, it fucking hurts for me to stand for like hours, but you really want to see this band, Okay, go ahead, Leave. But also don't be like you know so my son took the trumpet solo. And now that he's done I'm going to leave the elementary school. It's like no stay for all the kids.
Speaker 1:Dude, like dislike him and his fans yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, like I said, it's like because you guys ask that's.
Speaker 1:That's an example that comes to mind.
Speaker 3:It's like we all sort of like laugh about that, where it's just like, and I think today, like he probably still has a really good following and I think people probably really like his music and but at the same token and I was I was just having this conversation somewhat recently because we went to see the Arctic Monkeys at the man recently and I don't really know the band Like I've worked on a couple tunes with some students, so out of all the songs they played, I think I recognize like two or three of them and I would say like, for all the stuff that I heard, like most of them were like eight or nine or 10s, like they were like pretty good songs, like not not a bad band at all and not again, maybe not something that I would spend money on to go see for like my own personal enjoyment, but the fact that like the tickets were paid for we're going with a couple other people and everything, I was like, yeah, I'll go see the band and yeah it just like I don't know it was a.
Speaker 3:It was a great time I was enjoying watching the music and I realized that there is a sound at concerts that like rubs me the wrong way and so where I'm going with this is again because different people enjoy different things about going to see music. When I go to see live music, I want music to like take me somewhere, like everything that's going on when I go to see music is like happening like between my ears. Right, I don't go to shows and like dance. Like dancing for me is not, that's not making me happy.
Speaker 1:And there's seen us, but we probably don't dance on it.
Speaker 2:Well, I can get drunk and pretend I'm dancing.
Speaker 3:Yes, I've seen it.
Speaker 2:It's pretty good.
Speaker 3:So so, yeah, so like. Look, there's certain styles of music Like if somebody I don't know, like if like James Brown or something is playing like James Brown, it's like it's hard for me to like sit still or stand still, like if I hear James Brown music and like some of the drummers that he's he's had over the years, and guitar players and stuff, it's like I can't help but move to it. So I respect the fact that some music does that for people where they just like they dance and everything. But for me, most times when I'm going to see bands, I'm just either standing or sitting and I'm just like letting the music take my brain somewhere, whereas I think other people they go to see shows sometimes because they want the music to take their heart somewhere, right and like.
Speaker 3:For me that's not really. That's not me when it comes to music. It's like for me it's much more of a cerebral thing rather than an emotional thing. But I have found it's a sound in music that I do not enjoy, and what this sound is is the sound of hundreds of people singing along with the vocalist, while the vocalist is singing through the microphone and the and the PA system. There's something about that tone, color. It's like that ghostly sound of people that are singing like sort of on key, sort of not sort of on the beat, sort of off. It's like it's a weird ghosty sort of echo effect of people singing along with the singer and, like I know, a lot of people love going to shows to see that and to like enjoy that and be part of it.
Speaker 1:It's like nostalgia looking back. When you see, like when they play old things of like whatever would stock or whatever, and people you know sing the song with them, You're like, oh shit, that's so cool Right.
Speaker 3:You're like communal, like right, right, well, like people like you know, people like they love that community aspect of music. And it's like I'm not here to knock that or with what I'm saying, but it's more just like in terms of my own kind of like, my I don't know my own like the delivery of the musical system to my ears. Right Like there's different timbres or tone colors in music. Like a saxophone is very like gravelly and sandpapery Trumpets, very like rounded and bright and like sort of soft and softer, softer in its like attack, but like that, that tone color of all those like of like hundreds of people ghostly singing underneath the singer, it kind of like irritates me and I like and I feel like I discovered that that night, but I feel like I've always been that way and like not even really realized it until that show.
Speaker 2:So if you had the choice, would you rather see Arctic monkeys like the man you said? So at the man, with everybody there in the full experience, everybody having a good time, or just you?
Speaker 3:So just me would be awkward and weird. But I would say there's a middle ground of like. If there was a venue that had like 100 people there, I would rather see any band, it doesn't matter who it is. I'd rather see them in a small club than at like like. One of my students just went to see Aerosmith at like I guess it was at the Wells Fargo Center or something like that. Like I don't think I would ever want to go see a show at like a sporting stadium like it's like I don't think I'd want to do it.
Speaker 2:There's, like I saw the Rolling Stones at the link, so that was an awesome concert and, being forever away, you have to watch the big screens and you can barely see them on stage. Still, it was amazing, especially because the Mick Jaggers 100 and as doesn't stop moving for a three hour concert.
Speaker 2:It was pretty amazing just to see that blood alone hearing all of the music. But I think once you get to a level then it makes it worth the experience of, especially if you've never seen Aerosmith live. Now they're playing these giant venues and it's like, well, I got a If I want to see him. Now I got a three year window before somebody starts not being in the band anymore.
Speaker 3:That's a fair point. When I went to see black Sabbath it was at Whatever the e-center is called now, I just always know it as the center in Camden.
Speaker 1:It's like the BB and T pavilion and now it's like some squahana banks, that it's like I don't know what it's called. No, I think it's only that it's changed again I might not even be have sponsorship right now.
Speaker 2:It's just like the Venue in Camden or some shit.
Speaker 3:It's almost as if, like naming a venue after a like Significant, legendary figure in history and never having it change might be better than just having like Corporate twats like sponsoring everything in our lives. Yeah, but then again you're like I'm not even sales, not even making money and then food, beer. That's like $40 when you're there.
Speaker 2:But then they got to tear down the whole venue and you find out what the guy believed in 1905.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's, that is also. But black Sabbath Going to black Sabbath it was like a similar kind of thing. It's like, yeah, you don't have a choice, you have to go where there's like a billion people, because you don't know when one of them is gonna die and then you can't see them ever again. And also back then, when I went to, tickets were like $20. So when my friend was like, do you want to go see black Sabbath for 20 bucks, I was like, yes, I've never seen them, let's do that, whereas if you like now they might be like 90.
Speaker 1:Well, it's like the same thing with your Rolling Stone at Metallica. That was cool. I mean also just the energy, like there was a guy I mean we're far like you had to watch the TVs and like this guy was headbanging with them the whole time in front of us. Now I'm standing there like a statue because that's what I do. That's what I do, but this guy and you know it's really cool about going to a venue like that Everybody as you're walking same with sporting watching all the other people.
Speaker 1:Yes, but looking at everybody, and everybody is doing the same similar thing, like, alright, we're getting fucked up. Like we're trying to get fucked up. We're trying to find the right level of getting fucked up. Yeah, whether it's drinking or weed or acid or whatever. You just look around, it's like everybody is on a mission to get fucked up and watch Metallica play. It's pretty awesome, yeah, and then they're all gonna drive home. I.
Speaker 2:Think as much as you shit on professional wrestling. If you were to go to professional wrestling stand you would have a great time stolen son.
Speaker 1:I Text you that. Had just had the Little people wrestling again. I wanted to go to that stolen son in X-Ten. Yeah, I.
Speaker 2:I mean, I was talking like WWE like down at. Wells Fargo Center or something like a big venue where you're there with all these other people, most of which, like everybody that's there without kids, which is like 50% of the crowd is there to get fucked up and then, yell at wrestling wrestlers I've never been.
Speaker 3:I've never been. If you want to walk up to somebody at a WWE event.
Speaker 2:You can give someone the double middle finger and they're just gonna give it right back like stone cold and you just keep on with your day.
Speaker 3:It's like it's just a greeting and then places like that Well it's. And to your point about the, about like going to see everyone's different level of being fucked up, and your point of like observing other people, I mean, combine those two things and that's what it was like at Black Sabbath, at that, at that concert that I was mentioning.
Speaker 1:That's a lot of older people will see that rockers.
Speaker 3:That's what's cool about right? So when I walked onto the lawn I Was like, oh, there's like a dude in like a black leather, like sleeveless vest and camo pants who smells like weed. And next to him is like a 16 year old who's in a black leather vest and camo pants and smells like weed. So it's like, yeah, it's like wow, like Black Sabbath is like spanning generations and like those apples don't fall far from from those previous trees.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, people like to party.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but it's like in the same way, wearing the exact same thing, like 40 or 50 years apart.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's kind of rad. Yeah, that's pretty insane. It's like just take is it.
Speaker 2:Would you go to a concert with your dad and coordinate outfits?
Speaker 3:Oh, these were two separate, totally separate people. They were not together.
Speaker 2:It was. It was more just like this. I'm assuming that was the child that was like forced to be there.
Speaker 3:I, you know, I don't think like I've definitely gone to sporting events with my dad. I don't know if I could even go to a concert with my dad. I, my dad is who you. You've probably met him at some point, right? Yeah so my dad is. My dad has no artistic bones in his body. My dad is all Function and not form whatsoever. So I Don't even know how my dad would even like react at a concert or any yeah. I yeah. I mean, he might enjoy himself. He's just always he's an easy-going dude.
Speaker 2:I feel like you just be like, yeah, let's go It'll be fun, but like you have a favorite band, could you even be like. This is his music.
Speaker 1:He likes no Like yeah, that's not that weird. My dad's the same way. Yeah, like my dad like never had any music. I think I don't like music.
Speaker 3:I guess, yeah, no my dad will listen to sports talk radio, like that's always what was in the car when we were kids and I think he had like I don't know, like Chuck Berry cassette tape and maybe like a bow diddly, like, like older, like blues stuff, that was it like.
Speaker 3:But he, but he tries right, like he makes an effort, like years ago when I, after one of our hockey games, I was at my parents house doing laundry and as I'm folding laundry in the living room, I hear my dad yell from upstairs like Chris, quick, turn on channel, fill in the blank, or whatever. And I was like, okay, and I like turn it on, and it's a Luther Vandross concert. And I was like Weird, like but and it's like, and my dad absolutely saw that there was music on TV. It was like, oh, chris is a musician, he'd be interested to see this, but it was like Luther Vandross. So he'd like, so he like he makes an effort, I think, but I just think he doesn't. Yeah, he's just, he's like three sheets to the wind, I think, when it comes to that sort of stuff my dad's thing would probably be duck calls.
Speaker 1:If anything awesome weird shit like that. That's amazing.
Speaker 3:Your dad's perfecting his his mallard.
Speaker 1:Call in the car didn't like sports or musics. Sounds just like okay, well, yeah.
Speaker 3:Your dad sounds like a good time, like you said. Apple trees make apples. What do you like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's sports or music, music a little bit yeah a little bit.
Speaker 3:That's awesome.
Speaker 1:What do you want to jump into? Our musical thing we got or a person we picked? Yeah sure.
Speaker 2:Talking to see. You say you like music. The the part, the spotlight of local quote-unquote celebrity quote-unquote that we're doing this episode.
Speaker 1:It's our little thing. We started and it's perfect that I picked a music guy. We should come up with a name for it, but yeah, we're gonna come up with a name for it eventually.
Speaker 3:Okay, so so what is this?
Speaker 2:We're just like highlighting a local Celebrity or whatever, like someone from the Relative area that is famous or somewhat famous to talk about and do you guys know any personally.
Speaker 1:We've just been picking people.
Speaker 2:I mean, I could go like how we're playing six degrees at Kevin Bacon, I can find some people, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm sure so we. I told him last night so he had a lot of time to research him was Vinny Paz from Jedi mind tricks.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, do you know anything about them? No, no, really I know the, I know the, like the name of the group, but I've never listened to them. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I know Vinny Paz through Patrick is like a big. Vinny. Paz, you know he likes him a lot.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I did no research. So you like texted me about it and I was out last night going yeah, I like I know the name and and I've heard I know I've heard his stuff because Patrick's played his music.
Speaker 1:I like, while Patrick's played everything, so I couldn't, I couldn't pick it out, though. All right. Well then, this will be a short one. It's just a. He's an Italian born rapper from Philly.
Speaker 2:Duo is Jedi, mind tricks Him and a stoop is the other guy's name also a Philly dude or yeah, but I feel like I heard and I've heard you talk about Jedi mind trick as a band Itself, I knew Vinny Paz, but I didn't know he was part of Jedi mind trick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's just two dudes, occasionally a third dude, but it's just once you find them. So it's like you find a mortal techniques, one of my favorite rappers, and then you start branching out of everybody they work with and whatever they've featured and whatnot, and then you find them because I remember 10 years ago or so, like 15 years ago, a guy was like, oh, if you like that, you got a listen to this. I'm like, yeah, I'm not listening to it. And then it's eventually come on like, oh shit, this stuff's cool. I should have listened to that guy.
Speaker 2:But how are they just rapping, or are they like Producing beats or throwing like?
Speaker 1:they do all that stuff like their record label and shit like that, Just from doing the research I did. But basically Jedi mind tricks and him solo is like the things that really took off his cheese steaks is as big a I guess song like rogue and head I'm on and print like I'll go back a little bit. I went to a concert with to see a mortal technique at the railroad. It's in a fucker forget the venue down in Philly. Anyway it was a nice venue and Mortal technique goes on. And then it's like his fan base is South white Philly guys with like beaters or like skinny dudes with extra large t-shirts on and the gene shorts that come down to their ankles like, that's pretty much who listens to his music from what I gather from the crowd and he comes on and like I'm with the wife and everybody in friends, oh, those guys are white.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Had you played their music and I played all time she says turn this shit off. So everybody hates it.
Speaker 2:Nobody likes the music so they have been listening to it. And then we're like oh, they're white guys.
Speaker 1:Well, my wife just from one. Whenever I played in there she's got. I didn't know those guys were white.
Speaker 3:So so if this is a, if this is a group that speaks to you, mm-hmm, what is it about their music that makes you want to go back and listen to it more?
Speaker 1:Vinny pads just has a like real greedy Voice. It's the stories. Stories for music. For me is like probably my favorite part.
Speaker 1:Like not listening with people is you know, some songs you turn on like everybody kind of just enjoys them, like mostly rock. You know classic rock, everybody loves Led Zeppelin, everybody loves. You can listen that shit together. Rap, especially underground rap, you really don't want to listen with anybody. You just want to sit there and you listen to the stories like a mortal techniques story of like the Him trying to be again not him, but the character in the story trying to be a Gangster, and at the end they end up raping his mom and throwing him off the route. He jumps off the roof and shit.
Speaker 2:Oh, I didn't know that was that. I've heard that song.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a mortal technique, Okay but Jedi mind tricks slash Vinny pass. His solo stuff is stories like mostly Like him being he's Italian but he's from Philly, he's Muslim, like there's a whole lot of twists in there and a lot of his mom's Italian. So there's a lot of stories in the music. But then it's also like raw, gritty, gritty and, like you know, like I guess, violent, you could say but not like heavy metal Violent.
Speaker 1:You're listening for the lyrics like you're not listening because you like the sound of the beat, that sounds good too, and the lyrics happen to back it up. That's what I like.
Speaker 3:Well, that's also. I guess that that was gonna be the other question. I was gonna ask if the, if the storytelling aspect of the music is what could like speaks to you, mm hmm, like the loop, a fiasco If it was in a different context, like if he was, let's say, like I don't know if he was playing piano and and doing the exact same thing, right, so that.
Speaker 1:So I guess got it apart from the storytelling.
Speaker 3:What, then, is hitting for you? That's not that that the piano wouldn't provide.
Speaker 1:I just I like rap. I mean, I like a bunch of music for classic rock, for instance, but like rap, music is speaks to my soul.
Speaker 2:OK yeah, should we tell him that if he likes rap, he really likes jazz, because it's all basically sampling jazz.
Speaker 1:Well, that's another thing about his music like same with Mortal Tech. They use a lot of samples like old stuff, like you can see his the way he put stuff together. A lot of TV interviews will be like mixed into his stuff. Same with Killer Mike when he does that Reagan song like plays a clip in the news and then, you know, wraps and then plays another clip. And I like that shit too, yeah.
Speaker 3:See, like I as a like thinking of music as an audible art and visual art as a visual art, right, a lot of times, like I try to sometimes think about the two and how they relate to each other or like like. For me, like whenever I think about rap music and I think about a lot of sampling and stuff, to me it's almost like the equivalent visual art wise of like collages, where you're like finding existing things but you're creating like a new composition by like assembling all these existing things together and I think sometimes, like with the, the backgrounds in rap music that rappers are rapping over. I think that's what's kind of interesting about that genre. Like even if you took, say, like like Ice Cube, like today was a good day, right, that little guitar figure is from the Isley Brothers footsteps in the dark. So you listen and the drumbeat is to a certain degree, but it sounds like the drumbeat is like like somebody else recorded something similar and then they took a couple bars of that and then that was the drum sample that they put with the guitar part, and so again you have this whole new, you have a new song that's like with existing snippets of music that get kind of Frankenstein together, like I said, like almost like a collage, where it's like some artists might you know, whether it's like pencil or paint or ink or charcoal, whatever they're using they start with the blank piece of paper and then everything is being created from nothing, right, whereas I think a lot of times with rap music what's interesting is that there's they're taking a lot of things that are already in existence and they're hearing things in it where it's like, oh, I hear this segment of this song and this drumbeat from this song or like like an album like Paul's boutique, right, I don't know if you get down with the Beastie Boys at all, but like Paul's boutique has like a ton of samples from like tons of different bands and like I don't know if it's still the case, but I know years ago people were like, yeah, they're still in like litigation for like all of the shit that they used on that album, like not getting like proper like permission and rights to use it all.
Speaker 3:But it is kind of interesting to me to like format music that way, where you're hearing existing things taking existing things and then you have this whole amalgam of that stuff and it becomes this whole, this whole new piece of music.
Speaker 1:Well, the cool thing about it is like you might not have like a person like me would have never heard the thing that they're sampling. So it's like not that I can understand why people might get mad about sampling like, oh well, they're taking something that's previously already existed and they're using it for their benefit, but it's like I would have never heard the other thing. They took a piece of something, add it to it, and then now it is something that maybe some would argue is better.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's not a bad point. It's like it almost is like how much are you taking of the original and how much are you changing it to make it something new? So like again, comparing that to visual art, there was an artist, roy Lichtenstein, who used to take these old, like comic book panels and then he would just like repaint them as like a gigantic, you know like maybe the canvas might be like the, I don't know like four feet by five feet or something like that Like, but it would be one panel from a comic book and he would just kind of like paint it.
Speaker 1:And there was this you know he paint the exact panel.
Speaker 3:Kind of yeah, like if you look at the like his famous one is man I don't even remember the name of the piece of art, but it's like this woman who is in, like it's a close up of her face in the bottom right hand corner and her eyes are closed and there's like a tear like coming down her eye and like there's like water, like she's in, like there's like ocean waves behind her or whatever. And it's pulled directly from this, like this old sixties like love comic book like, not even like a superhero comic or anything like that, but it's like it's like our love or true love or something like that. And it's like almost literally taken like that panel and just painting that panel. And then meanwhile that comic book artist is getting paid, like you know what like whatever at the time was like the going rate of like $10 a page or whatever in the sixties that they were getting paid. So it's like a fraction of that for that one panel is what that artist got paid. But then you know Lichtenstein's making like millions of dollars off of that image.
Speaker 3:So it's like with with again going back to the comparison with rap music, it's like if you just like take a song and rap over it. It's like, well, that's still that original artist song. But if you're again with the like the example of the Ice Cube tune, it's like you could take that that guitar part from the Isley Brothers and then play like a different drum beat over top of it. Put those like those girls in the background that are singing. They're doing that little thing like that's not on the Isley Brothers tune. So it's like you put all that stuff together and now again there's all these little ingredients, as opposed to just like making the exact same dish the exact same way and then just rapping over it. That latter thing, I would say, is kind of lame, but the former, I think, is interesting. Where you're, you're creating something totally new from existing stuff.
Speaker 1:See, that painting thing kind of throws us like well, that how does that guy get sued yeah? Well, maybe he should be getting paid for the original artwork. But I mean, how many eyes would have ever in the history been on that one little thing, whereas he took it? And now way more people see it, and you know, obviously the original creator should get maybe credit at least, but if it's in the pages of something that nobody's going to look at ever, Well, I mean, I guess it all depends on you in a cave and then you go in and cave and be like, oh shit, that's cool.
Speaker 1:And then you go out and you're in a giant city and you paint it and everybody holy shit, that's the coolest thing I've ever seen.
Speaker 3:Well, nobody's going to go to the cave and it is relative, like that Right, like who knows how many people are reading that comic right Could be a lot, could be few, depends on the popularity, I guess, of the of that particular magazine. But I know personally, like if I, if I created a piece of music and let's say somebody took that music and they were like okay, we're gonna distribute this music so that, like, so many people around the world could hear it and You're not gonna make any money off of it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's, I'm not gonna make any money off of it either, I would be like cool, I'm on board with it. But if they were like, yeah, I'm gonna take that music and everybody's gonna like everybody in the world, we'll get a chance to hear it. But I'm gonna make millions of dollars and you're gonna make like next to nothing that I again. That's like.
Speaker 1:I think that would be like I mean, there's definitely that's, that's just stealing right yeah, so that I think.
Speaker 3:I think it would be a little bit more problematic.
Speaker 1:But definitely Some, and that's why they have all that the different laws and the difference it's so hard to like. We were talking with a vex about what the fucking? The vanilla ice and queen, yeah, yeah, or even like the.
Speaker 2:Robin thick one like the Robin, thick to like the was it.
Speaker 3:Marvin.
Speaker 1:Gaye, I think, was the.
Speaker 3:Was the original. Yeah, because you can't like there's only 12 tones in music you can't really like and there's only so many like combinations of notes to create chords. So it's like you can't copyright a chord progression. But I think when you start to have like a chord progression, a melody over top of it where it is so similar, yeah, then then you run into some some issues there.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, but vanilla ice defense, that was, that was an all-time. Yeah, for sure there goes. Dun, dun, dun dun.
Speaker 1:Mine is done done, done done.
Speaker 2:Yeah but though you said the same thing twice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was great. Man RIP behind the music RIP.
Speaker 1:Well, I guess that was a short one of Vinny Paz, but he has a great Rogan dude's really smart, like super, like I. You know, with his fan base you look like okay, white rapper, but really intelligent and I mean, you're one of his fans, exactly.
Speaker 1:Well, that's the funny part about going to a concert to see who shows up. It's like, oh, wide swath of people because you, it, music hits a Bunch of different people, but then there's always a majority of people it hits you know what I mean. Like slipknot with white guys in trailer parks. It's just gonna be a hit every time.
Speaker 2:Right in St Clown Posse yeah of course or white people, but like if, as a musician say, agent moosehead throws a new album up and that album just gets crazy popular with. Safety insane clown posse. You like you know community. Yeah, do you now lean into that? Or you're like, hmm, I don't think I want to be have a fandom like this.
Speaker 3:It's a, it's a, it's a, an ethical debate that I would say it all depends on you could be a millionaire, but everybody streaming your song also likes to kick dogs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like again, that's sort of the thing it's like. If I knew that it's a tough question to answer, and I'm not even saying that because of the millionaire part of it, I'm saying it just in terms of like, if you're creating something like a television show or an album or a Video game or whatever, it's like if I created a video game, do I want to be like, okay, well, you, you and you, you're okay to play that video game, but you, you and you, because of the choices you've made in life, like you're not allowed. I feel like that I couldn't do that as somebody who's creating something. But I would have a moral dilemma knowing that like, oh, the people that really like my music also, like you know, kick dogs, to use your example. I would just be like, oh man, like I. I feel like, just on the spot you asking me now.
Speaker 3:I think my solution to that would be like, hey, me personally, I don't like to kick dogs and I'm not here for kicking dogs. I love dogs. If people want to listen to my music, I want them to enjoy it, but if they kick dogs, that's what they're doing in their, in their own time. Like I can't, I can't control the entire world and what their behavior is. All I can do is control, like what my own behavior is, and I don't support kicking dogs. I've never kicked dogs and I don't encourage anyone to do that. I think that's. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Be a real mind. Fuck.
Speaker 2:They're like okay, what in my music is invoking like is calling out to those people specifically that would be weird, but every time there's a news story of like, this guy came up into my yard and kicked my dog, he was listening. I checked his phone and he was listening to the newest agent, moose head.
Speaker 3:Especially because, like our music, doesn't have any lyrics. It's all instrumental. I'm just like what are you hearing in there? That makes you want to kick dogs. That's what the mind fuck would be. Yeah, I'd just be like what?
Speaker 1:Taylor Swift, all young girls Okay, I see P all poor white people with tragic stories, I'm sure. And well, like who else? Like who else like? Who listens to Creed you?
Speaker 2:know like what, what Christian rock. I think Creed is pretty like when biscuit when ever.
Speaker 1:When he came out, it's like everybody that wore a backwards like baseball cap. Yeah, like with a puffy coat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like that type of thing, but terrible like you be, like, hmm, do I stop making music, or do you make a concerted effort to? The next thing you put out is Something so totally different than what you just did. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3:I think I, I think I'm I'm hard pressed to answer that question only because I don't think I've ever put out any music that tons of people have listened to. It's all been like sort of a, a smaller niche of individuals, I guess. I don't know.
Speaker 1:He'll come back and tell us when he becomes popular. Yeah, one of his bands. Yeah, how many bands are you?
Speaker 3:in. Well, I guess I would say that, like right now, really like one functioning band. I would say the g-force quartet Is definitely like a functioning band. Yeah, with agent moosehead, you know, we had a a very strong run from like 2004 up to the pandemic, and then, when the pandemic hit, it's like, yeah, we played a couple gigs here and there, but it's like, yeah, I don't know, I like I, I think I would be For lack of a better term I would be at peace with the, you know the way it ended.
Speaker 3:Yeah, with kind of had saying like, yeah, we like we played for like over 15 years, I think, and like I don't know. In that time there's been a lot of bands that we've interacted with or played with who were here for like Five months and then they broke up or like I mean, even one of our favorite bands made hand. It's like they started, I guess, whenever they they did like 2012 or 13 or 14 somewhere in that vicinity, and then we played a good number of shows with them. We there were, like our favorite Philly band. We love playing with them and then, yeah, they just like don't play anymore.
Speaker 1:Then it's almost got to be a labor of love, especially if there's like you guys aren't making ton of money. Everybody's got jobs, families.
Speaker 3:It's fucking hard Well that's the thing, and I and I'm probably repeating myself From the last episode that I was on, because I think we did talk a little bit about this stuff but I think if you're not a national touring band, if you're not, if you're not making a name for yourself Across the entire country and playing in different cities every single night for months out of the calendar year, your, your success in your fan base is directly proportionate to the amount of people in your life that are Getting married, having kids, buying houses, all that sort of stuff. Because when people take those next steps in life, there's less and less time and money to go see music or to go or even just. I mean, let's be real, I'm not naive enough to know that like sometimes when people came to see the band play, it was because they were just going out to have beers. Like they wanted to come, go out and get drunk, they wanted to like get drinks, but they were like, well, we could just go to the bar and I think like we could catch the last couple innings of the Phillies game. Or I think like Chris and Pete and like agent moosehead are playing, like let's go there, we'll like catch their set while we have beers. I don't think anybody well, I shouldn't say not anybody, but I think the percentage of people that were like, oh, I can't wait for, like the band to play, like I can't wait to see them again I mean, not that I'm trying to be self deprecating or anything, I think just the reality of it is is that, like, that percentage I think is smaller than the percentage of people that just wanted to go out and have a good time that night and we were Providing music for that good time.
Speaker 3:But as people are getting older buying houses, having kids, like all those expenses that go with it and the time consumption, it's like, you know, we had a nice little second wave because my brother is seven years younger than me. So all of my friends, when they started getting older and having kids and having, you know, wives and stuff like that, they stopped coming to shows. But all of Pete's friends were still like in their mid 20s to late 20s. So they, they picked up the slack and then they came to a lot of shows. But like now that Pete's like 35 or whatever it's like it's done, like I, like I Don't know, I just like I I Love writing music, I love playing music.
Speaker 3:I love sharing it with people. To me, that's the whole. I tell students this all the time. It's like the whole reason you do what you do is to share it with people. You want other people to hear it, whether it's like the dude that's next to you on stage that's playing with you, or the 10 people that are at the bar listening to you, or the 10,000 that are in this like a gigantic stadium, it's like you're trying to share what you're doing with other people. So eventually, I don't know. It's like you get to a point where there's like who are you sharing it with? Like so, if you can share with the other Musicians and you guys get together and you like play on the on the porch, you like get together and, you know, have a couple beers and play some music, like that's an awesome, it's an awesome thing to do. Or if you're playing a gig, like we have a. We have G-Force is playing on September 23rd for the forest in main, oktoberfest, and that's a great event. That like.
Speaker 2:Multiplug. Yeah, yeah, thanks, you got it. You got to make sure we get this out before next weekend.
Speaker 3:Yeah, if not, maybe time travel is a thing when we get into October people can go back in time and watch the show.
Speaker 3:But but yeah, no, just a solid number of bands that play and they have, like you know, beers and food trucks and all that sort of stuff, and it's like throughout the day Hundreds of people will be going in and out of that particular establishment and They'll get to hear, like maybe somebody shows up and they're there for an hour and they get to hear the back end of one band set and the front end of another band set, and just for that particular day they might not even know the names of any of the bands, but they're enjoying that music while they're there and that's kind of the the point.
Speaker 3:So with I again, I think with G-Force, there are more opportunities to like do that kind of stuff and play in those Opportunities and and those types of environments where people can just, hey, they're gonna be there, they're gonna be drinking anyway, they can enjoy the music that you're playing. You can hopefully get them to stay there a little bit longer and order a couple extra beers. So then you're helping the establishment that's paying you, but with with agent moose head and I Don't know. Just like creating and writing original music, like I still I love to do it, but I mean, at the same time it's I don't know who. I don't know who would come to see it at this point, compared to who would come to see it before.
Speaker 2:That's what I was just gonna ask about is being one of the if not like the pivotal difference between agent moose head and g-Force quartet being G-Forces, you're just playing jazz sheet music and throwing your own Solos on top of it and, as a band, running through all of that, but it's not a creative endeavor per se, whereas everything agent moose head was you. You're not taking anything in from anybody else. You wrote all of the music for all of the instruments and had it wanted to sound your way. This is what it's gonna be.
Speaker 3:Yes, I would say that's.
Speaker 2:that's fairly accurate, yeah, but so but you don't have that, I guess, where your creative release was creating music for agent moose head and I feel I Know you well enough to think you still have to be either creating music or having turned that into a New angle of attack on something, because you I feel like that doesn't go away, that impulse to want to create like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that, like I said, I think there's a lot of what you said that that is Spot on. But I think there is also another element of In the genre that g-Force plays, like the style of music you can, you can use that as a creative outlet, especially when it comes to the improvisation. So it's like, if you have like a certain Like, we'll say, like you're, you're soloing over the form of a song and you have like the chords that you have to play over. So when you're taking your solos, those are the moments that you can satisfy those, that that creative drive to do something new and different. Because if you had I don't know if we had a gig once a month for the next four months and let's say we did a tune like fall, each time the solo in September would sound different than the one in October, the one in November, the one in December. That's where you can satisfy some of those creative urges. I think also, again, in the way that you're interpreting the music too, you can kind of be creative in the way you're communicating the music to the listener, because I mean, I know you've seen G-Force a couple times and it's even though we're taking some songs that have that very like, like very traditional jazz sort of vibe. The way that we do them is sort of like it's injected with a little bit more I don't know like electric music compared to more traditional jazz, like the bebop era of jazz in like the 50s and 60s and stuff like that. So I think you can still take like because, as we talked about before, those like lead sheets of just like the melody and the chord progression. You can take a lead sheet and you could take it in a million different directions. If we were in like a bossa nova or like a samba band, we could like, we could salsa out like any of those particular songs and just. Or if you were in like a I don't know if you were in a really experimental, like heady, like fusion-y kind of band, you could do the same thing and like like.
Speaker 3:There was a saxophone player, joshua Redman, who recorded an album in the 2000s and he does Ornette Coleman's. I think it's Lonely Woman and it's like and that's that Ornette Coleman tune is from the late 50s. But when you listen to the Joshua Redman version there's like synthesizer sequences and like and like all sorts of interesting percussion and stuff, but the melody and the chord progression is the same. So it's still like the song, it still has that like the same elements of the original tune, but you can do different things with it. So so, like I said, you're right in that like composing original music is definitely a a a satisfire for those urges as well. But I think, like playing playing jazz music, like you get to, you get to hit those spots as a musician just as much, or even in like different ways.
Speaker 1:And also.
Speaker 3:I guess the other thing I would add to that too is just in in much more freeing ways. And so I guess what I mean by that is like with Agent Moosehead. It's like if I was writing the bass part, the all the parts for the horns, the keyboard parts and the guitar part, and and like loosely kind of talking with the drummer about like how things we're going to go from the beginning to the end of the piece of music. It's definitely a higher stress level when you're performing live, because I'm constantly listening to make sure everything is going the right way, like the way it's supposed to go from like the original, the original music, whereas like with jazz, it's just kind of like everybody can be left up to their own accord a little bit more and you can just kind of relax and play because you know that like everybody's looking at the exact same piece of music, everybody's interpreting it in their own way. So when Pete is playing bass over a tune, he's like he's just playing.
Speaker 3:he's comping with those chords and just playing along to those, to the basic harmonic structures of those chords. He's just creating his baseline on the spot. But I have enough faith and trust in Pete that he knows his business well enough to be able to like play through the bass and I don't even have to worry about it. All I have to do is listen to him, and that, to me, is when music is the most freeing, when all you're doing is like listening to the other musicians and you're playing off of them, instead of like almost being a babysitter to the musicians to make sure everything is coming out right.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:So it's like lower, lower stress and more reward. I think in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1:Well said. So what does anybody ever just like she guys are done and then somebody just keeps going with a solo themselves? You guys like fuck this guy, Just like a random, just pulled it out of his ass. Like you know what. I've been working on this secretly on the side, and after everybody's done I'm gonna play my thing.
Speaker 3:I don't know. I guess I think it goes back to, like, the musicians personalities. I guess it's just. It's really I don't know. I guess there's musicians out there that would do that.
Speaker 1:But I'm gonna wait for these guys to stop. They're gonna think we're done and I'm banging on my thing that I created. No, I don't think. I've never done that. You've never gotten greedy on the guitar like you're coming up to the end.
Speaker 2:As you say, you take the one piece of sheet music and then you're go through to do the solo. You never got to the end and went. I'm throwing some more on here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I don't think so.
Speaker 3:I think I think you know you mentioned storytelling. With a lot of the music that you listen to, I think the storytelling aspect you, you, I think as a as a musician, when you're soloing, if you're listening to what's going on with the rest of the band and you're listening to what you're doing, you're telling that story. They're sort of like, you know, like an introduction, and then you're, you have like sort of a rising action, you know. However, however, you want to lay out the story. You're laying out the story and I think a good musician just kind of knows, like when, when you have, like, you've told the tale, you know, and I yeah, I don't even think even some of the musicians that have played that music with us over the years, I don't think anybody has like overstepped their boundaries or overstayed their welcome with a solo. I think my OCD a little bit likes to keep things in even numbers, like if you're, if I'm soloing over the form of a song, I'm going to do it twice or four times, I would like, if I did it three times, I would feel like fucking weird.
Speaker 3:Now, trumpet player Bart, that we work with a lot. He doesn't care about that, like if he's playing, if it takes him three cycles or three courses, three, however, you want to. However, when you think of it, if he can say what he wants to say in three, he's good, and then he'll just like, you know, he'll get to his last couple of notes and then he'll just like, look over at me and give me the high sign that, like, we're going back to that. Once we hit that repeat, we go back to the top of the head, you're up and it's like, and I'm like, really Like you just went three times, though that's fucking weird, but it's like, but he, but he's cool with it, whereas, like, for me, it's like it's got to be two or four, like I just it doesn't feel right if I do it three. But I think sometimes, even as I'm playing, I'm like thinking about where it's going to go over those two or over those four or whatever. Damn, you know a lot about music.
Speaker 1:So this is another episode of the Expressly podcast with Kevin Stan. Thanks for coming out.
Speaker 2:Chris, this is awesome.
Speaker 1:Thank you again. Thanks for having me Every time. It's so good.